Yet Another Microsoft Employee Doesn't Get It
So I’m in exile from my cable modem for awhile, and using MSN dialup access instead.
How hard can it be, right?
So I downloaded the 42 megabyte file of MSN 8 (named msnsetup_full_9x.exe for reasons I couldn’t explain). I installed it on my laptop (reluctantly, but the alternative was nothing and there were 750 emails from this morning alone, I really didn't want to be offline for long).
Worked alright, got setup, no big problem.
Hrm. My outgoing mail isn’t going anywhere. I'm using authenticated email through Operamail Premium, it ought to work anywhere.
Is the server down? No.
Ah.... MSN has blocked outgoing connections to port 25. Ok, I can understand that, it’s an easy step to take to fight spam, sure...
So what SMTP server should I use with MSN?
Google was surprisingly little help. All I found was how to setup Outlook Express and Secure Password Authentication. I don’t use Outlook Express, and wouldn’t use it even if it wasn’t full of security holes.
So I called the tech support number. Now when I needed help with my password, the call was answered in a few minutes. When I went to the generic tech support line, I was on hold for more than 35 minutes. Finally, Tech Drone answered.
Me: Yeah, I’m trying to setup my email on MSN...
Him: Are you using MSN now?
Me: Yes
Him: What error message are you getting?
Me: None. Messages just stay in the OUTBOX
Him: Did you try sending yourself a test email?
Me: Um.... yeah, but it too is in the OUTBOX and didn’t go anywhere?
Him: It didn’t show up in the INBOX too?
Me: No.... They’re all still in the OUTBOX.
Him: (Flipping through pages or their web site or something... total silence from the other end of the phone, with only the occasional Um
thrown in apparently so I would know he was still alive.)
Me: I’m just looking for the SMTP server hostname?
Him: Um....
Me: If you can just tell me what that is, I can configure it myself.
Him: What program are you using?
Me: (knowing this was going to end badly) Opera
Him: I don’t support Opera... I only support Outlook Express.
Me: I don’t need you to support Opera, I just need you to know what the hostname is
Him: Well, I don’t have that information..... I can see if I can find it though
Me: That would be great.
Him: (5 seconds later) Yeah, the hostname is like 150 characters, and no one here knows what it is, but if you go to O.E. Config you can setup Outlook Express from there and just copy the information out of that into Opera.
Me: Ok... so is that OEConfig.com or...?
Him: No, it’s support services at MSN dot com slash us slash o e config. [I figured out he meant http://supportservices.msn.com/us/oeconfig/.]
Me: Ok, thanks, I’ll do that
Him: Let me give you a support ticket number
Me: (thinking: Oh yeah, like I’m really gonna wanna follow up on this conversation with you
)
Him: ... and just for future reference, we don’t support ‘Opera’
Me: (tired) No one is asking you to support anything... if you have the information, it shouldn’t matter what mail program I use.
Him: (not trying very hard to hide the fact that he’s got his Well-I-am-a-tech-and-so-I-have-to-be-nice-but-my-tone-tells-you-what-I-really-think-of-you working overtime) Well they don’t give me that information, does that make sense?
Me: Actually no, it doesn’t make any sense at all... Why anyone would use that broken Outlook Express is beyond me, but I understand that they didn’t provide you with the information that I need.
<fini>
So I went to the website he mentioned, only to find out that I had to login to read it (Passport). Once there what did I find? A page about how to configure Outlook Express to work with Hotmail.
*sigh*
Another glorious day for the state of Tech Support. It’s clear that he had nothing more than their own website and Google to try and answer my question.
So I went and logged into my old reliable Unix shell account via ssh and used PINE instead.
You know, it's bad enough that MS has screwed around with the standards for HTML, CSS, and everything else it touches.... now it's starting to encroach on regular old email.
And the mindset is still the same: "We support this or that application" rather than supporting standards, and let the user choose what s/he wants to use.
I have joked in the past that no one would ever accept the same restrictions with email that we were used to with websites, namely that you have to be using the mail software that the person who wrote the message said that you have to use.... but maybe that's where we are headed?
Crazy.
Comments
Hi, I noticed the MS guy paper is repeated 3 times. Some of the links in the panel give 404. And the last thing -- I told you that on Windows some HTML Entities are not well rendered. They were in Opera/Linux. Now I see similar problem in Windows also (#8217)
Posted by: Vladimir | November 15, 2002 08:19 PM
Oops.... thanks... it's fixed now.
Posted by: TjL | November 15, 2002 11:10 PM
Just wanted to give you a tech's perspective on your experience...
First, the reason why the setup file is named as such is because it's MSN software, full version (including OE, IE and other updates to make sure MSN 8 runs as smoothly as possible) and the 9x on the end specifies that it's for a Win98 or Me installation.
Second, and a very important thing to remember: MSN did not build the Opera browser. MSN techs have no idea how it works or how you have to set it up. And since it's not made by MSN, it's impossible for MSN to troubleshoot it... it's like taking a Mitsubishi to a Ford dealership for repairs. They know what it is and they have a general idea of how it works but they don't have specific training on how to fix it or even how to start it up. So it's not a mindset of "use our software or nothing." It's more that MSN doesn't have the time or inclination to work on third party software. It's the same for modems... there are a million different types of modem and dozens of manufactures. Thus, MSN will not help you install your modem, regardless of whether or not the tech you're speaking to knows how. It's called Support Boundaries and that's what you came up against. MSN cannot support every product and every situation out there and the first ones that the company will refuse to deal with are problems caused by someone else's product. It seems unfair but again, take your Mitsubishi to a Ford dealership and see what happens.
Third, MSN accounts are Hotmail accounts. If you have an @msn.com email address, you can sign in to Hotmail with it. So the tech had the right idea but the wording of the page led you astray by making you think that it was only for Hotmail accounts (which is true, but you have a Hotmail account so you were all set).
Fourth, if you're using MSN 8 your email is web based (see previous paragraph). That's why you couldn't find the SMTP server address. There isn't one. It's an http server. The address is http://oe.msn.msnmail.hotmail.com/cgi-bin/hmdata
I hope that helps. I don't claim to speak for MSN here but if your experience with tech support is consistently like that, you should be asking to speak to a supervisor. MSN technicians should be polite, courteous and knowledgeable, even when you present them with a situation that they don't deal with every day. A good technician takes pride in his work and enjoys helping people out. A bad technician acts the way you've described in your article and would be fired if such behavior was pointed out to a supervisor.
(Disclaimer: I do not officially represent MSN, I'm just giving you my perspective as a tech here.)
Posted by: D.W. March | March 19, 2003 02:11 AM
the SMTP server is smtp.email.msn.com but if your using the 3rd party connection (non MSN internet access) port 25 will be blocked. So you'll have to connect using an msn access number or MSN DSL.
Cheers,
Crazy Dave
Posted by: crazy dave | December 3, 2003 04:17 PM